> Jin-su spent most of his time trying to secure fraudulent identities which he could use to apply for jobs. He would first pose as Chinese, and contact people in Hungary, Turkey and other countries to ask them to use their identity in exchange for a percentage of his earnings, he told the BBC.
"If you put an 'Asian face' on that profile, you'll never get a job."
He would then use those borrowed identities to approach people in Western Europe for their identities, which he'd use to apply for jobs in the US and Europe. Jin-su often found success targeting UK citizens.
"With a little bit of chat, people in the UK passed on their identities so easily," he said.
Interesting. I was under the impression that most large employers perform basic background checks on new employees?
Over the past years I was approached multiple times with innocent sounding emails that clearly had the goal to use my identity in the way described here.
yes background check is done on UK person's identity and then Jin-su shows up to the job.
This is a happening a lot for regular tech jobs. Person who interviews and person who shows up for job are completely different ppl. we had to start taking screenshots of faces in interview so we can compare. This is happening big time.
And, at least as far as I've heard, those people often target small-ish companies, something like 20-100 employees. Large enough where you can stay unnoticed, small enough that you don't have strict policies and background checks.
We've had people interview remarkably well, get hired, and when they showed up on the team - they did not know the stories/experiences they mentioned in the interview. Realized the person we screened was not the same that showed up to work. Back when we were doing a lot of hiring, this sort of scam worked.
But are they any good? I suppose they must be, as they seem to retain their jobs, but how do they rank overall?
Also, I tend to think that maintaining these interactions going might be a way to let more information into Naughty Korea and might actually have a positive influence in the long run.
The risk is not the quality of the work that the person might do. The risk is that you now have a state-controlled North Korean asset operating inside your security perimeter.
A lot of these are not there to breach your data, they're there to make money and fund the DRPK.
That's why there's no one industry or types of businesses being targeted, it's anywhere they can get hired. If your a high profile target, that's a bonus not the original goal.
The reason that North Korea targets IT roles in particular is precisely because they're the weak link in zero-trust implementations. Someone, somewhere, has the unfettered rights to access the production database, and they're in the IT department.
I interviewed one guy who probably was one of them and he was not a genius enough that I could ignore the aura of confusion and sus. I didn't think it was NK until way later but now it makes sense
Probably got lucky otherwise I would have no work myself because I think the client isn't that rich, they would go out of business from ransomware attack
Odd that he was sent abroad to do it, I always assumed they just did it from NK instead of abroad.
Also only having to give 85% to the regime seems pretty weird to me, it’d seem more logical to give 100% to the regime and have them provide the workers with a very cheap bed and food
They probably hoped that the remaining 15% was just enough to keep the workers from defecting. That combined with the threat to brutally torture and kill their family that remained in North Korea were probably pretty effective motivators to stay loyal to the regime.
1. Every citizen will have ties or family to -think of-
2. The current regime (which is now on its third generation) will last 7 generations more.
3. You have any descendants at all
In Romania during the 70s and 80s the only people who would go to specialization/training in the West had spouse and kids that stayed behind. The punishment for defecting was that the defector would not see their wife/husband/kids ever again (well, it seemed to be for ever. Nobody expected the regime to crumble). AFAIK there were no labor camps in Romania.
With this in mind-I am quite sure NK is selecting the people win a similar fashion. I would not be surprised if the punishment for defection is more sinuster than just not seeing their spouse/kids ever again.
It’s bad but not as bad as we’re made to believe, people still have lives worth living. They live, they laugh, they love. They do fun normal stuff, they have free thoughts, they have family.
People will see kids laughing and playing in a war zone and think “it can’t be that bad, if it was that bad they’d be cowering in fear 24/7” - but people always find a way to live and find snippets of joy in even the worst situations
Oh my God, you are so naive. Normal stuff in NK is watching your kids wasting away because of lack of calories (average North Korean is 10 inches shorter than average South Korean-even though 70nyears ago they were the same people genetically). Is living with a radio in your home that does not stop singing praise to the regime - neighbors will report you if they think you turned off the radio. If they have free thoughts they do not share these out of their family (and most likely hide them from their kids because kids talk unsupervised). I could go on for a page or so but I hope you get the idea.
You're just feeding into western propaganda. Yes North Korean people are poor and there's tons of inequality but they are still real people. They are not in a constant war being bombed and tortured endlessly. They tend to farms, chat with friends, make jokes, feel pain and joy, they do what they can. I know that sounds like literal hell to a tech obsessed population that has to filter everything through the lens of social media, but for many people this is just life.
A lot of North Koreans probably don't even think about the government, it just has always existed and always will exist to them, they don't think about things being anther way because it won't be, so they just get on with it. It's like the people who believe propaganda that America has turned into a hell hole now under Trump where people have no rights or opportunity and have to live in fear of mass shootings or being kidnapped by ICE everyday. For the vast majority of American's that just not accurate at all. Touch grass.
perfect example of why you shouldn’t bother hiring these cheap offshore engineers.
you’re hiring an engineer thousands of miles away in another country for a fraction of the cost of an American engineer and you just assume they can be trusted with access to your most sensitive data and systems? And that they even are who they say they are and not just a frontman for some cabal?
You know that the North Korean is untrustworthy, but that's kind of a special case. Is a random American more trustworthy than a random Bangladeshi or Slovakian?
I suppose that you have a bit more ability to do background checks on US citizens. But those background checks aren't so great, either.
A random person in your own country is more trustworthy for two reasons.
1. background checks
2. more ability to meet face to face.
3. ability to go after them for wrongdoing (either civil cases or chances of getting the police to follow up on anything criminal.
I doubt these North Koreans are getting hired due to wage disparities (these are roles supposed to be in the US where they have a contact person in the US), more like they have perfected the interview process as the most important thing in their life.
I got the impression from the article he was working with people in Turkey and Hungary to use their identities to get jobs in the UK and US. So US company found this amazing Hungarian dev who would work for 1/5 what an American would ask for, but they paid for it either way their privacy (hey wait a minute, sounds familiar...)
A handful of commenters do post like this, but we ban them when we see them. It's mostly the same few serial trolls with a long trail of banned accounts behind them.
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"If you put an 'Asian face' on that profile, you'll never get a job." He would then use those borrowed identities to approach people in Western Europe for their identities, which he'd use to apply for jobs in the US and Europe. Jin-su often found success targeting UK citizens.
"With a little bit of chat, people in the UK passed on their identities so easily," he said.
Interesting. I was under the impression that most large employers perform basic background checks on new employees?
I‘ve always simply ignored these.
Is there a better way?
yes background check is done on UK person's identity and then Jin-su shows up to the job.
This is a happening a lot for regular tech jobs. Person who interviews and person who shows up for job are completely different ppl. we had to start taking screenshots of faces in interview so we can compare. This is happening big time.
Also, I tend to think that maintaining these interactions going might be a way to let more information into Naughty Korea and might actually have a positive influence in the long run.
That's why there's no one industry or types of businesses being targeted, it's anywhere they can get hired. If your a high profile target, that's a bonus not the original goal.
Hiring mischievous North Koreans is fully in line with your CIO's new priorities, which she heard about at a conference once.
Probably got lucky otherwise I would have no work myself because I think the client isn't that rich, they would go out of business from ransomware attack
Also only having to give 85% to the regime seems pretty weird to me, it’d seem more logical to give 100% to the regime and have them provide the workers with a very cheap bed and food
1. Every citizen will have ties or family to -think of- 2. The current regime (which is now on its third generation) will last 7 generations more. 3. You have any descendants at all
With this in mind-I am quite sure NK is selecting the people win a similar fashion. I would not be surprised if the punishment for defection is more sinuster than just not seeing their spouse/kids ever again.
A lot of North Koreans probably don't even think about the government, it just has always existed and always will exist to them, they don't think about things being anther way because it won't be, so they just get on with it. It's like the people who believe propaganda that America has turned into a hell hole now under Trump where people have no rights or opportunity and have to live in fear of mass shootings or being kidnapped by ICE everyday. For the vast majority of American's that just not accurate at all. Touch grass.
you’re hiring an engineer thousands of miles away in another country for a fraction of the cost of an American engineer and you just assume they can be trusted with access to your most sensitive data and systems? And that they even are who they say they are and not just a frontman for some cabal?
The only way to prevent this is to do in-person only, but that's another can of worms.
You know that the North Korean is untrustworthy, but that's kind of a special case. Is a random American more trustworthy than a random Bangladeshi or Slovakian?
I suppose that you have a bit more ability to do background checks on US citizens. But those background checks aren't so great, either.
1. background checks 2. more ability to meet face to face. 3. ability to go after them for wrongdoing (either civil cases or chances of getting the police to follow up on anything criminal.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
if all you do everyday is interview, you obviously get great at it
a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
If you see any more of these, you can help by flagging them and/or emailing us at hn@ycombinator.com.
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