20 comments

  • mkeeter 1 hour ago
    The "Intermediate Report" [1] lists the authors as "Robert V. and Claude (Anthropic)". Is there any reason to believe this is not AI hallucinations?

    [1] https://stateofutopia.com/papers/2/intermediate-report.pdf

    • logicallee 27 minutes ago
      Great question, and you're right to be skeptical. Indeed extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. We've put great care into being fully reproducible, and have provided all files necessary for you to do so before taking the claim at face value.

      Before we continue, you can verify that we are able to make end-to-end collisions through our linked tool:

      https://stateofutopia.com/experiments/md5collider

      You can use literally any MD5 tool, including the ones built into Linux, Windows Powershell, any online MD5 calculator, etc, to test the differing files.

      Our certificates implement the full SHA-256 algorithm and we provide the source code. You can verify it yourself using any and all means including writing your own version by hand if you don't trust our code. In addition to this, our results have been verified by other cryptographers. Thanks again for the question.

      • Retr0id 9 minutes ago
        If you can't tell the difference between MD5 and SHA-256, you should not be making claims such as the one in the title.
      • kstrauser 22 minutes ago
        > You can use literally any MD5 tool

        > Our certificates implement the full SHA-256 algorithm

        We knew MD5 is broken. Do you have a POC for breaking SHA-256, too?

  • bob1029 1 hour ago
    The neat thing about bitcoin is that the incentive to break it is so high that it would almost certainly be the first place you would learn that SHA2 had been broken. Not on a website like this. I can verify its integrity by opening robinhood on my phone.
  • pavel_lishin 1 hour ago
    > Secure hash functions are used to make a short version of a large file. Ideally, it has several properties including making it infeasible to find two files with the same cryptographic hash. We've just gotten 92% of the way there. This has security ramifications in that other researchers are expected to be able to complete the work through similar methods as explored in the paper. We weren't sure if this was a remarkable result, since it's not a full collision

    I thought this meant they were able to generate collisions for 92% of files/hashes they tried, but it sounds like they're able to generate hashes that are 92% identical?

    • jrexilius 1 hour ago
      Is a partial collision an indicator that it could be broken? The "we broke it" seems an exageration, but maybe that's a failure of my understanding.
      • skeledrew 9 minutes ago
        Possible. It's up to people to decide if they're OK with a known 92% collision out there (with the unknown being there could be a 100%), or go for something stronger.
    • logicallee 17 minutes ago
      Thank you for pointing out that that section could be clearer. I've now updated it. It now reads:

      >We've just gotten 92% of the way to finding a single collision (this means that there is no full collision yet.). This has security ramifications in that other researchers are expected to be able to complete the work through similar methods as explored in the paper, and eventually produce collisions at will. We weren't sure if this was a remarkable result, since it's not a full collision, but we shared the work with the leading cryptographer in the field, who holds the world records in reduced-round attacks, and got great encouragement to proceed to publish it as a paper, so we did so.

      (if we had found a single full collision, we would have just written "we broke SHA-256". This is 92% of the way to a full collision. Any collision is considered a great reduction in the security of the hash, because it means that there two different files with the same cryptographic hash. This is what happened to other algorithms such as MD5, as demonstrated in the linked tool.)

  • bem94 1 hour ago
    I'd expect a finding / paper like this to be submitted to the IACR ePrint server [1] to bring it to the attention of the cryptographic community. I can't see that it's been submitted yet.

    Venue should not imply credibility but in this case it would certainly help bring the proper scrutiny.

    [1] https://eprint.iacr.org/

  • pixelpoet 1 hour ago
    Are you sure you asked enough times for money on the website? I only counted 5 instances, not counting the AI-produced PDF doc.
    • logicallee 11 minutes ago
      I didn't ask for money on the website.
  • jimjeffers 1 hour ago
    Is this real? The website does not look credible.
    • bhouston 1 hour ago
      This hn post is made by author of the paper. It needs even a tiny bit of peer review.
      • logicallee 5 minutes ago
        Yes, I'm the author of the paper. It's received more than a tiny bit of peer review. I'm happy to answer any questions about it or answer anything that is unclear.
  • kstrauser 1 hour ago
    For a shorter executive summary, what does "broke" mean here? Can you reliably produce collisions now for 92% of SHA-256 digests?
  • Taterr 1 hour ago
    Their homepage states this is some sort of "AI-governed nation" https://stateofutopia.com/
  • rdtsc 1 hour ago
    From https://stateofutopia.com/papers/2/intermediate-report.pdf

    > his report was generated on 2026-03-22 as the final artifact of the SHA-256 Cryptanalysis Research Project. Collaboration: Robert V. (research direction, strategy) and Claude/Anthropic (implementation, computation).

    This Claude guy is pretty prolific it seems.

    But I'll wait for some known cryptographers to chime in

  • drum55 1 hour ago
    > it is possible that we'll find relations that carry across the entire double-SHA-256 pipeline

    Bitcoin mining is a partial second preimage of 0x00 though, not a collision, that statement just seems to be so outside the realm of what they’re claiming to have done. Even MD5, the most widely known to be broken hash, would be secure when used in the same way bitcoin uses SHA256 (other than being too short now, bitcoin miners have done 80 bits of work at this point many times over).

    • Retr0id 7 minutes ago
      Also, a collision on single-sha256 would imply a collision of double-sha256 right off the bat, since the inputs to the second round would be matching. But as you say, a collision attack doesn't do much to BTC mining.
  • redeemer_pl 31 minutes ago
    Hey Claude,

    Do some research and write a paper about breaking Bitcoin.

  • wonnage 1 hour ago
    Seems more like a case study in AI psychosis
    • Avamander 1 hour ago
      Indeed, the text feels very LLM-written.
  • helterskelter 1 hour ago
    I'm skeptical.
  • Kikawala 1 hour ago
    We publish this work as responsible disclosure. While a full SHA-256 collision (sr = 64) has not yet been achieved, the tools and techniques presented here represent significant methodological advances that bring it closer. Organizations relying on SHA-256 for collision resistance should begin evaluating migration paths to SHA-3 or other post-quantum hash functions. The cryptographic community should treat the collision resistance of SHA-256 as having a finite and shrinking safety margin.
  • newobj 1 hour ago
    S-tier schizoposting
  • skullone 1 hour ago
    ROFL
  • Kenji 1 hour ago
    [dead]
  • logicallee 2 hours ago
    In the linked work, we've broken 92% of SHA-256 across its full 64 rounds, and were encouraged to publish it by the leading cryptographer in the field (who held the previous record). Currently, SHA-256 is the basis of TLS certificates, bitcoin, and many other security applications. We think it is time to begin to migrate to other hash families, because we expect the rest of SHA-256 to fall soon.
    • Retr0id 14 minutes ago
      I believe I hold the actual record for most colliding bits in full-round SHA256 (72% of bits matching). My proof fits in a tweet, why doesn't yours?

      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38668893

      (Also my work does not demonstrate any weakness in SHA256, it's just an application of the birthday paradox)

    • Freak_NL 1 hour ago
      Why omit the name of the leading cryptographer in the field?
      • thadt 59 minutes ago
        They specifically call out Yingxin Li[1] in the acknowledgements section of the paper?

        [1] https://eprint.iacr.org/2024/349

      • rdtsc 1 hour ago
        Pretty sure his first name is Claude. He is quite good I hear ;-)
      • polotics 59 minutes ago
        shallow broad vague boastful and wordy, this way you know the LLM is nearby...
    • vl 1 hour ago
      What does it mean to “break broken 92% of SHA-256“?
      • hagbard_c 58 minutes ago
        As long as there is no verification of the results and their relevancy in reaching higher numbers it means as much as nearly having won the lottery by guessing 9 of the 12 numbers correctly: you did not win the lottery.
    • skullone 1 hour ago
      Go seek a mental health professional and never post here again until you have been diagnosed and medicated.
  • MostlyStable 59 minutes ago
    I know people (especially around here) hate it when people just post AI output, and I generally agree, since it is trivial for anyone else who is interested to do the same thing. However, the majority of the comments here are from people seemingly asking the author (or someone else) to explain how significant this is, without having taken that step themselves. So while I normally wouldn't do this, in this case it seems helpful. Claude thought the paper was interesting and had a novel cryptographic technique, but that the claims of near-term breaking of the SHA-256 algorithm to be unsupported. Here's the conversation:

    https://claude.ai/share/b10b95ef-5d9f-43dd-9005-3d1d89f9dbc1

    • kstrauser 18 minutes ago
      That's not how this works, though. I don't care if the method is interesting. I care if it works. I can write an interesting proof that P=NP but that doesn't make it valid.

      It's on the author to explain what they mean. Here, they haven't.

    • dylan604 47 minutes ago
      Does the fact that Claude wrote the paper help Claude to think the paper was interesting? <facepalm> I'd suggest sticking to your "I don't normally do this" idea