Humpback whales are forming super-groups

(bbc.com)

134 points | by andsoitis 3 days ago

12 comments

  • grahar64 9 hours ago
    There must have been so much unseen behavior when there were millions more whales in the ocean. Here's hoping that we can see more
    • sidewndr46 8 hours ago
      Given the current trajectory of whale populations, 'we' probably won't be seeing that. Maybe in many generations of humans.
      • cortesoft 8 hours ago
        Well, the population growth probably isn't linear, so maybe?
        • mulnz 7 hours ago
          Warming will kill off most of the systems these animals depend on within 30 years.
          • vasco 2 hours ago
            Why put a number on it? Every number so far has been wrong. Can we agree on the negative impacts of humans on an environment conducive to humanity without putting obviously wrong timings on predictions? I bet your intention is to provoke urgency but to most people it just causes an eye roll because it's not true, whereas the underlying ideas are true.
            • cultofmetatron 2 hours ago
              cod fishing boats used to have to be wary of the catch being so big that it would tip the boat.

              We have no real frame of reference for what we've already lost.

              • vasco 1 hour ago
                Of course we do, you just gave an example. In fact if we truly didn't, then there would be no problem.
          • ilt 7 hours ago
            And will give way to many which thrive or evolve to thrive in hotter climates?
            • netcan 5 hours ago
              In human time scales, the species which thrive will tend to be the adaptive generalists. Evolution takes time.
            • ygjb 6 hours ago
              It's gonna take a minute (on a geological timescale) for the ecosystems to be able to reliably sustain megafauna again.
              • gameman144 6 hours ago
                Given that we support megafauna today, could you explain why? Legitimately asking, since I don't see a reason they couldn't adapt just as well.
                • gdupont 6 hours ago
                  Because evolution is slow and the climate change is going fast.
                  • timschmidt 6 hours ago
                    Evolution of small things like algae and the krill which feed on it and feed the whale is quite fast. Single celled organisms reproduce on the scale of 20 minutes and hold immense amounts of genetic diversity in their populations to facilitate the success of a better adapted line almost immediately. Additionally, they are adept at horizontal gene transfer from other well-adapted organisms.
                    • kulahan 5 hours ago
                      This would be great news if the whale literally only required krill to survive, but complex megafauna have complex needs, so the ability of krill and other small creatures to evolve is largely irrelevant in a discussion regarding the ability of megafauna to survive. This is especially true if you read TFA and see that the whales already adapt to eat different things as necessary.
                      • timschmidt 4 hours ago
                        Humpbacks have a highly specialized feeding mechanism. They only prey on krill and small fish.

                        The food chain really is sun -> algae -> krill (and sometimes small fish) -> humpback whale

                        • jounker 52 minutes ago
                          In recent years we’ve learned that humpbacks are generalist feeders with a wide variety of feeding strategies adapted to different kinds of prey.
                      • drysine 2 hours ago
                        >but complex megafauna have complex needs

                        Like what? Emotional support dolphin?

                  • ilt 5 hours ago
                    Evolution has been found to be happening 2-4 times faster than the rate earlier thought: https://news-archive.exeter.ac.uk/2022/may/articles/fuelofev...
                    • sailingparrot 4 hours ago
                      We would need 1000x faster, so that doesn’t really change anything.
                      • TeMPOraL 3 hours ago
                        It could easily become this fast or even faster, if we would just stop worrying so much about "playing god" and focus instead on getting good at this job. We don't have much time for this either, as AI is on the trajectory to take over that mantle in the next decade or three, whether we like it or not.

                        But seriously, we may not have much choice. Natural evolution stopped being able to adapt to environmental changes after it created us; genetic engineering is essentially the only way to make biology adaptable enough again.

                        • vasco 2 hours ago
                          The next question is which traits to do you choose and the next question is which traits are better, because choices will imply ordering, and then you open a big can of worms that last time killed millions of people. So maybe there's other ways to avoid doom that didn't create doom last time we went down the path.
                        • kakacik 2 hours ago
                          Unpopular opinion for obvious reasons, but probably the only realistic one apart from just witnessing one extinction after another. Pollution and climate change aint going anywhere until we elevate whole world to the level of say western Europe.

                          But since we humans are pretty arrogant with our wisdom and lack long term patience, I can see many ways where well-intended meddling can end up in catastrophe overall.

            • gilrain 42 minutes ago
              Not at the pace of change we’ve chosen to accept, no.
            • thrance 6 hours ago
              Sure, in a few million years.
            • wahnfrieden 6 hours ago
              It’s game over for a very long time
            • napierzaza 6 hours ago
              [dead]
  • swframe2 10 hours ago
    I hope we create whalegemma (similar to dolphingemma) so we can explain to them how to co-exist better with humans (e.g. avoid this area during their whale hunting season, travel to this area if you get sick or tangled in rope).
    • zyxin 8 hours ago
      There is a group that is attempting to communicate with whales by training a transformer based model on whale sounds.

      https://www.projectceti.org/

    • AlecSchueler 5 hours ago
      It's just a pity we couldn't figure out how to better coexist with whales.
      • CalRobert 2 hours ago
        We know how, but we choose not to.

        The same goes for most of our ecological problems, really.

        • amelius 26 minutes ago
          If asked the question, most people would choose to, I believe.
      • gilrain 39 minutes ago
        …while not changing anything about our behavior, you mean. Because we were never ignorant of how to do better; we just couldn’t accept even any inconvenience, any obstacle to our “growth”.
    • dmos62 6 hours ago
      • jibal 5 hours ago
        No it isn't and that clickbait article doesn't say it is.
        • dmos62 1 hour ago
          What makes it a clickbait article?

          >There is a federal law that prohibits people from communicating with dolphins.

          >It’s called the Marine Mammal Protection Act. Signed in 1972 by President Richard Nixon, the federal law was created to protect marine mammals from being hunted, harassed, captured or killed.

          >In a sense, talking to or communicating with dolphins could qualify as harassment under the Marine Mammal Protection Act.

          >There are two levels of harassment, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Harassment at one level is considered “any act of pursuit, torment, or annoyance that has the potential to injure a marine mammal or marine mammal stock in the wild.”

          >On another level, harassment is defined by the NOAA as “acts having the potential to disturb (but not injure) a marine mammal or marine mammal stock in the wild by disrupting behavioral patterns, including, but not limited to, migration, breathing, nursing, breeding, feeding, or sheltering.”

  • tclancy 9 hours ago
    It’s going to be prog rock, isn’t it?
    • parpfish 9 hours ago
      no, i think they're just going to start a podcast.
      • tclancy 9 hours ago
        Yes officer, this one right here.
    • naruhodo 3 hours ago
      Not necessarily. Look at the Gorillaz.
    • The_Blade 5 hours ago
      Migaloo is joining Humphrey the Whale's team in SF forming a super team
    • _joel 3 hours ago
      The water goes all the way up to 11
    • redact207 2 hours ago
      their music's making waves
  • rbanffy 17 minutes ago
    It was in the heat of the moment.

    Sorry. I couldn’t resist.

    For the uninitiated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_progressive_rock_super...

  • ourmandave 1 hour ago
    Alright, who pissed off Aquaman this time?
  • astrocat 10 hours ago
    holy units batman

    > Bursting from their enormous lungs at over 300mph (483km/h), a humpback whale's blow can rise up to 7m (23ft) into the air.

    Pick a lane BBC.

    But this is great news. Also the fact that whales "transport huge amounts of nutrients across the globe" (linking to [1]) is fascinating. The role of whales in sucking up critters in one place and pooping them out elsewhere being a fundamental dynamic that drives global ocean ecosystems... just chefs kiss

    [1] https://www.nature.com/research-intelligence/nri-topic-summa...)

    • AlecSchueler 5 hours ago
      It's not just the BBC, it's the UK as a whole. Miles per hour or deeply entrenched for speeds but for measurements we use meters. The same for weight, we weigh people in stone but we weigh everything else with grams.
      • Oarch 17 minutes ago
        We even weigh different kinds of drugs differently. So I'm told.
    • frereubu 2 hours ago
      I remember reading about whales returning to an area they hadn't been in for decades and people were worried about them eating all the local fish, but in fact their faeces enriched the local ecosystem from the ground up, leading to more fish. It's a bit like the counter-arguments to the lump of labour fallacy.
    • tom_ 8 hours ago
      I think the BBC policy is to provide every measurement in both types of unit.
      • gamerslexus 8 hours ago
        Ordering is inconsistent.
        • CarVac 8 hours ago
          They use MPH in the UK.
          • aaronbrethorst 8 hours ago
            Their hours are pegged to the hogshead, and are about 3 seconds shorter than American hours.
            • lostlogin 6 hours ago
              The US use of units is worse than the UK.

              Said from a proudly metric country, New Zealand, where everyone knows their weight in kilograms and height in feet and inches.

            • The_Blade 5 hours ago
              The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My Tesla gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it!
      • redsocksfan45 3 hours ago
        [dead]
    • cyberax 6 hours ago
      Apparently they also measurably affect the vertical water mixing. Fish need dissolved oxygen to breathe, so they don't normally venture past the thermocline. And their fins are also vertical, so they don't cause a lot of vertical water movement.

      But whales routinely dive deep, and their tail fin is _horizontal_ and it creates powerful updrafts.

      Another organism that affects mixing is apparently jellyfish.

  • dotspec 8 hours ago
    It's the Entmoot of the sea.
  • shevy-java 4 hours ago
    They may gather up for a protest. See the whale north of Germany who seems unable to swim away.
    • stef25 41 minutes ago
      He got away eventually right ?
  • kunley 5 hours ago
    They are going to save us from that XXIII century probe, right
  • bitwize 9 hours ago
    Perhaps they're forming a delegation to decide what to answer to that thing coming from space? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_IV%3A_The_Voyage_Hom...
    • jaza 6 hours ago
      Seriously though, we have Star Trek IV to thank in no small part for this amazing humpback comeback success story. Live long and prosper!
    • dhosek 8 hours ago
      So long and thanks for all the fish, perhaps.
  • oomuinio 10 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • starkeeper 5 hours ago
    Hopefully they are building an army to conquer the planet.
    • dgb23 5 hours ago
      Or they pack up to leave.