6 comments

  • vanc_cefepime 59 minutes ago
    “The algorithm cannot say no, however. If it finds problems, it sends the request for review to a team of in-house nurses and doctors who consult company medical guidelines. Only doctors can issue a final denial.”

    As a physician, I’ve had to speak to these so called “peers” in a peer to peer denials with both my clinic and hospital setting. They are usually people who aren’t physicians as a first line of their defense, ie therapist, nurses, etc. This weeds out the providers who either don’t care about the patient denial and blindly accept the denial, or patient has to take matters in their own hands just to get the care they need/deserve. Or worse, in the hospital that means the patient gets hit with a huge bill (already an insane number in the US even with insurance, so don’t get me started on this) or it gets delegated to another provider who has to deal with it. Quite often patients get denied medical and rehab services, esp after something debilitating like a stroke, trauma/accident, etc. and at that point the peer to peer is to weed the provider out. Usually someone will tell the patient you’ve been denied, either go home without the services they need or you fight it.

    I fight it. Can’t count the number of times I’ve spoken to someone not in the field of medicine or if they are, not my field of medicine (both Family/Hospital Medicine). Often I’m fighting with an MD or “practitioner” who is some other field like a gynecologist about hospital medicine services or rehab. I’ve even had the pleasure of talking to a physical therapist and didn’t let me get a word in as we began the peer to peer. I now start of by asking for their credentials and field of speciality and demand a peer of my field to do the denying if they are so adamant about it “not being medically necessary”.

    I have so much to say and could write a book about it. I just wish I had the money and connections to actually change the state of US of Corporate Medicine.

    • zardo 32 minutes ago
      I feel like this should really be something people should lose their license over.

      By deeming something not medically necessary they are (in my opinion) effectively practicing medicine. If they aren't qualified to practice that specialty, or aren't acting in the patients interest we should really be getting malpractice suits on them and stripping medical licenses.

    • OptionOfT 45 minutes ago
      As someone who needs expensive medication, thank you. I appreciate it.

      2 questions:

          * This time, is it paid? Is it billable? Is it part of the visit I pay for? 
          * What can I - as a patient - do to make this process easier?
      • ceejayoz 41 minutes ago
        It's unpaid time, but that'll just get factored into the rates charged for billable things like appointments and procedures.
      • paulddraper 19 minutes ago
        It's like any time spend on billing or administrative work, it's baked into the costs. (Administrative costs is a big component of rising healthcare costs.)

        Depending on the issue, the patient may be needed to provide supporting paperwork, like previous diagnoses or treatment for providers. Other than that, not really, short of taking legal action.

    • throwanem 11 minutes ago
      You want to try to change things? Great. So write the book!
    • tempaccount5050 40 minutes ago
      In the early 2000s I got a job right out of highschool working at a Blue Cross Blue Shields call center. I thought it was going to be customer service but it was insurance claims. Training was supposed to be 6 weeks but they pushed me live after just 2. I had no idea what I was doing. After floundering for a couple weeks trying to learn to basically be a fuckin doctor, I just started approving everything. "Patient needs emergency surgery for X" "Approved". The whole experience was completely insane.
      • evulhotdog 18 minutes ago
        Thank you for your service!
    • jmspamerton 32 minutes ago
      [flagged]
  • CalChris 14 minutes ago
    Medicare has a similar issue. When you sign up at 65, you have to make a first big decision, Traditional Medicare (yay!) or private Medicare Advantage (boo!).

    Traditional Medicare consists of Part A (hospitals), Part B (doctors) and Part D (drugs). Part A+B don't cover everything so you have a Medigap plan. I have Plan G which has very little paperwork. All up, I spend about $400/mo and I'm very happy with A+B+G+D.

    With Medicare Advantage you sign over your Medicare rights+benefits to a private insurer. This may save you some money, especially early on. In fairness, not really a lot and the $0/mo plans are a scam. With Medicare Advantage, you will then have to argue with an insurance company for the rest of your life. You'll have to deal with preauthorizations and a restricted network.

    With Traditional Medicare, what's covered is spelled out pretty clearly ahead of time. Docs know it. You know it. There's literally an app for that. With Medicare Advantage, medically necessary is at the discretion of the private insurance company.

    Here is the scenario from a relative: he had a heart event which ended up needing a stent. He had to argue with Kaiser while this was going on. Kaiser is 240,000 people. He is one.

    Medicare Advantage is very profitable.

    It is possible to switch back from MA to TM which really revolves around your Medigap plan. You are guaranteed issue for Medigap plans for about 3 months before/after you turn 65. After that, you will have to undergo medical underwriting.

    • wrs 1 minute ago
      [delayed]
  • khriss 8 minutes ago
    The worst part, simultaneously soul crushing and apocalyptic rage inducing is that we get these outcomes after spending more per capita on healthcare than pretty much any country on the planet.
  • spankibalt 0 minutes ago
    Geiz-ist-geil-Healthcare is, according to many election results anyway, what most US citizens want; everything else is communism/socialism/woke/leftist/[...].
  • cyanydeez 1 hour ago
    Medically speak, I'm sure we can all find several businesses that arn't necessary.
    • voicedYoda 47 minutes ago
      In Luigi we trust /s
      • thinkingtoilet 4 minutes ago
        yes... sarcasm...

        Totally unrelated. In traditional stories, as anyone ever been upset when the knight slays the dragon at the end because the dragon was hoarding all the gold and killing the townspeople? I was never upset when the dragon got slayed.

  • d_burfoot 44 minutes ago
    [flagged]
    • f33d5173 37 minutes ago
      I think the vast majority of people agree on the generalities and care enough about solving the issue to be able to come to an agreement on the particulars. The problem is that the people who get rich off the current system won't agree to any solution that reduces their profits, and have thus far managed to fillibuster attempts at such a solution through a combination of buying politicians and propagandizing certain segments of the population into rejecting solutions that would benefit them.
      • jmspamerton 22 minutes ago
        [flagged]
        • ceejayoz 19 minutes ago
          > It's not a money probelm, it's a resources problem.

          Most people would consider money a resource, and quite a few rural hospitals are closing because of a lack of that specific resource.

          > you'll discover how you really DONT want the government to tell you which patients to serve

          Yeah, wait until you hear about private for-profit insurers doing that instead.

          • jmspamerton 15 minutes ago
            As an adult, i deal with private for-profit insurers all the time. If you're under 26, you've probably never paid a medical bill.

            It's a money problem because the medicare doesn't pay enough to hosptals, and boomers are all on medicare.

            So your government run healthcare is destorying rural hospitals.

            • ceejayoz 13 minutes ago
              > If you're under 26, you've probably never paid a medical bill.

              Sure you have. Copays and deductibles are still a thing. I wish my kids didn't have medical bills!

        • outside1234 15 minutes ago
          Honestly, after stories like these, I don't want a corporation telling me which patients to serve even more. At least government is theoretically accountable for their decisions.
    • selectodude 42 minutes ago
      As long as you accept the outcome of “drop dead” when something happens to you.

      Problem is you’ll go right to the emergency room when you have a heart attack.

      • expedition32 30 minutes ago
        Yep they will move to California the moment they get cancer. Never trust a libertarian.
    • ervine 34 minutes ago
      What's a libertarians take on how health care should work? Completely privatized, completely socialized, somewhere in between?
      • garciasn 19 minutes ago
        Libertarians are a wide and varied group; however, if we assume we're talking about over-simplifying to the root of what Libertarianism is: healthcare would be entirely privatized without ANY (and I do mean ANY) government oversight.

        For example, this would mean:

        1. No FDA as they believe that barriers to medical treatments are not necessary; people should be able to 'do their own research'.

        2. No employer-sponsored healthcare as they believe that people should treat doctors like they do any other type of specialist service like car mechanics or plumbers.

        3. Licensing of doctors would become drastically deregulated, allowing the market to be flooded with practitioners and thus make pricing competitive.

        Libertarians believe that the current system (a hybrid of state-sponsored and free-market) is a HUGE problem in that it allows for both corporate greed and government red tape to create more expensive healthcare than it should.

        ---

        A true Libertarian utopia is about as realistic as a Socialist one, except in reverse.

      • jmspamerton 18 minutes ago
        The fact that the hospital doesn't know what a procedure costs (they make it up based on deals with medicare, medicaid, and individual insurance companies) should give you a hint.

        Yes, the patient needs skin in the game. People need to take care of their own health. Most procedures are given to grossly unhealthy people.

        Yes, completely privatize it. Make people pay for their care so their daily decisions are weighed against what affect it will have on their overall health.

        • ceejayoz 16 minutes ago
          > Most procedures are given to grossly unhealthy people.

          Well, yeah. That's the idea behind "medically necessary". We don't do elective heart transplants on healthy people for funsies.

          • jmspamerton 13 minutes ago
            no, they were unhealthy a long time before they entered the clinic. Fat, pasty people that don't leave their couch make up 80% of patients.
      • datsci_est_2015 27 minutes ago
        “I’ll put out this fire for you if you pay me $5000”
      • outside1234 14 minutes ago
        "I don't want to be forced to pay for insurance, but will move to a state with subsidized insurance the second I need it."