Exit IP VPN servers mitigation rollout

(mullvad.net)

215 points | by Cider9986 4 hours ago

8 comments

  • john_strinlai 4 hours ago
    it should probably link to this: https://mullvad.net/en/blog/exit-ip-fingerprinting-between-v...

    which is the blog post, rather than a list of exit servers

    related to this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48143880

    • Arrowmaster 1 hour ago
      That blog post is a perfect example of when RFC5737 should be used.

      https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5737/

      • Insimwytim 1 hour ago
        On a side note, buttons icons on this page won't load without javascript. I cannot comprehend what would justify such decision.
        • jermaustin1 52 minutes ago
          Without justifying it, the reason is simple. They are using a front end framework (bootstrap) that many developers use/understand that also supports 99.9% of browsers.

          Running a browser without javascript that you still want graphics to display (so not a screenreader or text-based-browser), is part of the .1% they are willing to disappoint.

          Do I think it is overkill? Sure. Do I still use jQuery at work even though the vast majority of its once handy features are now baked into JS in the browser by default? Of course.

    • opem 3 hours ago
      The page already contains link to both of these resources
      • john_strinlai 3 hours ago
        right. but one of those resources contains much more context than the other, making it much more suitable for the submission link.
  • Cider9986 1 hour ago
    If you us Mullvad browser, which has built in Mullvad proxies, this isn't an issue because it doesn't use wireguard.

    The browser also has a cool feature in the browser extension called Random mode. This gives you a different IP for each site, improving your privacy.

    • stefan_ 34 minutes ago
      Which you absolutely shouldn't use, because just like Tor Browser before, a vulnerability in the browser can be immediately escalated into decloaking your real IP. Ideally the proxying doesn't even happen on the same machine.
      • ranger_danger 14 minutes ago
        One possible mitigation might be to run your system (or just the browser/certain apps) sandboxed to only communicate with the IP/ports mullvad uses for VPNs.
    • Cider9986 1 hour ago
      You can probably also use it on regular Firefox.
  • mjevans 3 hours ago
    I'd really like some version of E.G. Librewolf configured to spoof the exact SAME information no matter who's using it. Like standard resolution for a 1080p monitor, the same GPU profile, Allow device timing stuff to work but with a fixed profile etc.

    Effectively, stop spoofing random data, start spoofing still useful but not for finger printing data.

    • okso 3 hours ago
      The Mullbad Browser? https://mullvad.net/en/browser
      • gruez 2 hours ago
        Or tor browser, where all the features came from. You can also enable it on firefox with privacy.resistFingerprinting enabled.
        • traceroute66 2 hours ago
          > You can also enable it on firefox with privacy.resistFingerprinting enabled.

          Not the same thing.

          I use both Firefox and Mulllvad Browser side-by-side on a regular basis and in practice Mullvad Browser is far more aggressive in its privacy preserving measures to the extent that you do sometimes stumble across websites that are "broken" in Mullvad Browser but work fine in Firefox, for example the animated map features on the Ventusky website (which, IIRC, breaks because Mullvad is more aggressive at blocking JS graphics functions).

        • whilenot-dev 1 hour ago
          FYI here are the listed differences between Firefox-/Tor-/Mullvad Browser: https://mullvad.net/en/browser/hard-facts
  • andrewstuart 3 hours ago
    Do VPNs pay retail ISPs for exit points?
    • TkTech 3 hours ago
      No, not usually. Few ISPs are willing to risk blacklisting.

      Just like scrapers (and a lot of VPNs are quietly using their custom VPN clients to sell your own IP [and data] to scrapers) it's mostly a "don't ask don't tell" situation for IP sourcing. You use a multitude of IP providers and if a scandal happens you just say "We didn't know!" and move on to the next. Almost always grey-market, very rarely through legitimate providers.

      • tiffanyh 2 hours ago
        I see DataPacket.com have VPN clients.

        Does anyone know if this is any issue for non-vpn users of datapacket.com?

        https://www.datapacket.com/case-study/nordvpn

        • gruez 2 hours ago
          >Does anyone know if this is any issue for non-vpn users of datapacket.com?

          Probably not that much worse than other VPS providers with trashed IP reputations, eg. digital ocean, vultr, ovh. If you're blocking bots, the first thing to block is any datacenter ip ranges, not just known VPN servers.

      • r_lee 3 hours ago
        why is this downvoted? I'm not aware of a single ISP that would willingly let VPN providers use their ip blocks for their exit nodes
    • hnlmorg 23 minutes ago
      Some VPN providers don't even have exit nodes in the country they're claiming. Instead they'll have their IPs registered to the respective countries in GeoIP databases.

      This isn't a practice all VPN providers partake in. And from my own anecdotal experiences, Mullvad seem to be using services that are geo-located (I say this because I've tested latency between different endpoints in Mullvad). But it is something to be wary of with some of the less reputable providers.

    • dtech 3 hours ago
      Not retail ISPs, but many extensions and free VPNs route VPN traffic through the connections of those who use them.
      • joxdosba 3 hours ago
        This isn’t correct, the residential IPs are a completely separate and vastly more expensive product.
        • giobox 3 hours ago
          One such extension, https://www.tuxlervpn.com/faq/:

          > Will other users of tuxlerVPN be able to connect using my IP address?

          "When you use our free residential VPN, you automatically agree to add your IP address into the community pool. This means that you are trading your own IP address in return for the ability to connect via the IP addresses of other users. You can opt out of this by purchasing our premium subscription; once you upgrade to the premium version, your IP address will be removed from our community pool."

        • preinheimer 3 hours ago
          I mean, most “residential proxy” providers are selling access to hacked devices, or sneaky plugins

          https://medium.com/@xianghangmi/resident-evil-understanding-...

          Technical paper: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8835239

  • rjhy2020 2 hours ago
    [dead]
  • StackExpress 3 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • akszt 2 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • j027 2 hours ago
      This sounds like some LLM to me
      • captn3m0 2 hours ago
        Just flag and move on.
  • willis936 3 hours ago
    Is this at all related to Wyden's recent congressional warning? Are any other VPN providers speaking up on this?

    https://www.wyden.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/wyden_letter_to_g...

    • john_strinlai 2 hours ago
      it is a direct response to this disclosure: https://tmctmt.com/posts/mullvad-exit-ips-as-a-fingerprintin... and nothing to do with american politics
      • willis936 2 hours ago
        And what evidence do you have that this May 14th disclosure has nothing to do with Wyden's March warning? If you remember your history you'll know Wyden tried to shake the Snowden revelations out before the Snowden revelations.

        Dismissing Wyden's remarks as "american politics" is near equivalent to dismissing the entire notion of VPN security.

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/after-years-of-obscu...

        • jnovek 2 hours ago
          Mullvad has explicitly given their reasoning. That's the evidence. Now the burden of evidence is on you to show that these things are connected since you are the one challenging Mullvad's claim.
        • john_strinlai 2 hours ago
          >Dismissing Wyden's remarks as "american politics"

          its a letter signed by american politicians, addressed to an american agency, about american citizens.

          no scare quotes are needed around american politics.

          (mullvad is swedish)

          • willis936 2 hours ago
            And would you classify Snowden's revelations the same?

            The pattern is "Wyden rings the bell about a dragnet and then we learn the details about it". It just seems like an extraordinary claim with no extraordinary evidence to say that "person warning about VPN compromises has not motivated any of Mullvad's recent security work". Just provide that evidence for your claim.

            • john_strinlai 2 hours ago
              >It just seems like an extraordinary claim

              what? it's not extraordinary at all. mullvad has a long history of being very security conscious. they do not wait for american politicians to direct their security work. i will stress again, mullvad is a swedish company.

              feel free to read the co-founder's HN comment right here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48145679. they found out about the issue via the blog post, looked into it, and fixed it. end of story. (it says as much in the first line of mullvad's blog post too...)