>> Recently, a pilot study (single-arm) by Smith et al., recruited 20 patients (73 years of age) with AD and provided them with 20 grams/day of CrM for 8 weeks [20]. Serum creatine levels were increased at weeks 4 and 8 (p < 0.001), and total brain creatine levels (as measured by H-MRS) increased by 11% (p < 0.001). Clinically, there were demonstrated improvements in cognition on global (p = 0.02) and fluid composites (p = 0.004), as well as List Sorting (p = 0.001), Oral Reading (p < 0.001) and Flanker tests (p = 0.05).
Yeah 20 patients is not a lot. I'm inferring this is a pre-post test. However some of those p-values are pretty good (.001 on reading and and sorting). Very promising pilot study but not conclusive imo.
And List Sorting, Oral reading, and Flanker only? The first and last are part of global and fluid composites, so those have to be excluded from comparison. That leaves us with 3 improved scores out of 12 tests. So 9 did not improve, or got worse. Figure 3 (of the original article) shows that the changes aren't big. Just "significant". Since the participants were in the early stages of dementia, this seems well within expectations.
I wouldn't even call it "promising but inconclusive" so much as "not conclusively a dead-end for further research". In a single-arm open-label study, with no blinding, both the participants and the researchers know who's getting what. You need a placebo and double-blinding for comparison against the active group and to adjust for any ways in which the researchers may have unwittingly influenced the results. (Or perhaps even wittingly, when there are conflicts of interest. I spent half a minute looking up this study and didn't see any statement attesting that there were none.)
.001 for creatine levels isn't surprising; that's a lot of creatine. I'd explain the cognitive tests with the practice effect, because it is unlikely that creatine had such a massive effect and we only discover it now.
I hear about tech bros taking creatine these days with the tone of voice that they use to talk about microdosing. So I can’t imagine it having zero effect.
What I worry about more is that it has more to do with fixing a deficiency. That being deficient in creatine causes a cognitive loss more than supplementing causes a boost.
I'll add to this: the referenced trial occurred over 8 weeks, so even if we stipulate that the improvements in cognition (which are dubious, as tgv points out in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48347906) are due to treatment rather than some other effect, we don't know that the effect is disease-modifying as opposed to symptomatic. As with acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, it may just be having a cognition-enhancing effect which, nevertheless, does not alter the underlying disease trajectory (i.e. just shifting the declining trajectory up vertically by a constant amount), and might revert shortly after discontinuing use of the drug.
A controlled trial, over a much longer duration, and ideally with a wash-out period, would be necessary to identify a disease-modifying effect.
FWIW creatine is "one of the most studied supplements for muscle and strength".
But at the same time "creatine’s brain benefits aren’t as exciting as social media makes them out to be. The research at this point just doesn’t support the hype".
Feedback about creatine often seems mixed. Many love it, but many also report problems. Just in this thread there are people talking about heart palpitations and sleep problems. I have the theory that these side effects and mixed experiences come from impurities of lesser quality products. Apparently there are mostly two sources: Creatine mono-hydrate which mostly comes from China and "creapure", which is a patented formula known for its purity. Does anyone have insight into how substantiated this theory is? How likely are negative effects because of pollutants/impurities?
Just in case anyone is thinking about trying it: 25g seems pretty high. It’s worth it to review what that means for the rest of your body before starting this regime. Kidneys are really useful organs to have working.
This is a myth, its not bad for your kidneys. The reason this gets spread is because you will have higher levels of creatine in your urine if your Doctor tests your urine for kidney function, which indicates kidney disease.
However, If you reveal to that doctor that you're supplementing Creatine it will not be concern them.
I've even had doctors unaware that the regular eGFR tests needs to be adjusted for body mass to be remotely accurate if you're bigger than average - e.g. lifting weights or obese. Couple that with creatine and you get some "fun" moments when your doctor tries to gently break to you how messed up they think your kidneys are. The first time I had that I'd warned my doctor ahead of time to expect elevated creatinine, and he still freaked out.
This has been my understand as well. I have CKD and my doctors have always been chill about it as long as I stop taking it about a week before having blood work done.
EDIT: I don't do 25g though... sounds like a lot...
You're lucky your doctor is aware of it. I've had several who did not understand, and insisted creatine must be dangerous if it elevated creatinine levels, and/or didn't understand the effects.
It's pretty clear they understand that. Creatinine is, however, the waste product of creatine. So the more creatine you consume, the more creatinine is in and discharged from your system.
Precisely and correctly as they said, normal eGFR presumes average musculature and average creatine consumption. If either of these out of the norm, eGFR becomes inaccurate and potentially flagging false positives for damage. Creatinine, the waste product of creatine, raises in a way that can get confused with kidney damage, which is precisely how the confusion about it causing kidney damage or being bad if you have a compromised kidney came about.
In some studies, people with CKD actually improved with creatine supplementation, though notably this was not people with PKD where it could increase cyst growth.
I'm not aware of any evidence that creatine harms the kidneys if your kidney function is remotely normal. You'd probably want to check with your doctor if your kidney function is already compromised.
Creatine supplementation will freak out a lot of doctors if they're not warned of it ahead of time, though, and sometimes you'll even need to explain to them that they will see elevated levels of creatinine on the tests and it won't be an accurate predictor of kidney function.
If you're supplementing with creatine and need your kidneys tested it's easiest to stop a couple of weeks before, or ask for a Cystatin C test and make sure they use the relevant adjustments for body mass as well if you e.g. lift weights - I've more than once had doctors imply they were worried I had kidney disease because they were entirely unaware of the effects both creatine and large body pass has on the regular tests.
If you're too lazy to read the literature, then just don't take it.
Going to something that frequently hallucinates or misstates things to the point where it's "trust, but verify by reading the source" means you may as well just read the literature you'd have to verify the summary against anyway.
Yes, the labeling does caution against using it if you have kidney disease. Not sure how much of a risk there is if your kidneys are functioning normally. Maintaining good hydration is always a good idea.
Hei more than that - as an avid weed consumer - drugs are not dangerous by themselves especially when you don't like them - they are dangerous when you create space for them and get along with them. I like to believe weed is my little "cheat" - but i'd argue that any product is an abuse on a daily basis - so taking creatine once in a while might be fun to try out - but i would warn about anything on the spectrum of "regime" that plan for a daily basis etc... especially as you rightfully justified, without a doctor or an expert being able to know what effect this is going to have on a said person.
I use it as a supplement because I do weightlifting. 5g/day. I did 20g/day for a week once, and didn't notice it made any difference, so I'm back to 5g now. In terms of stuff like memory, mood, etc. I can't say it's made any improvement but the idea that it might be helping prevent decline is nice.
For lifting you hit a saturation point quickly where your muscles will only hold so much of it. Not sure if there is an equivalent for any brain related effects.
I've heard others say it helps with mood, energy, depression, etc. and if that's the case for some people then great. I don't notice it myself but that's just me. Not everyone has the same body chemistry.
It’s called a loading phase to quickly saturate the tissues i.e for a week or so for someone who never took the creatine. You can absolutely skip this.
I wouldn’t go higher than 10g daily on a regular basis.
I personally take 7.5g for the last couple of years.
Not something to worry for the general population, but persons with genetic likelihood of getting Parkinsons should be wary of taking both Creatine and Coffee together. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4573899/
Ask because many of the online tools I've tried, they will sometimes tag what I've written at 30-40% AI written and sometimes purely AI written stuff is flagged as 60-70% AI
My experience in testing actual AI written content on willing participants is that people are entirely useless at detecting AI written content with any reliability whatsoever.
I don't know what your experience is, according to mine there are some people who are better than chance at picking this up.
And I believe my experience is something expected. People are also certain kind of a neural network. If an LLM system is trainable to be a decent detector, I don't see a reason why at least some people couldn't be.
I haven't seen any evidence an LLM is trainable to be a decent detector for anything people have made any kind of attempts at trying to get past them. Which is as expected as access to a detector effectively makes the problem equivalent to the halting problem (you can tweak the output using a detector as judge until you have a process to bypass it). Some of them are somewhat able to recognised "raw" output.
Yes, and the problem we are having here is 'raw' output. LLMgenerated slop is zero-effort bullshit, not an elaborate scheme to prove a philosophical thesis. There is no economy for mediaworkers doing the latter.
Similar as with coding, yes, halting problem!, but we've been always reviewing code nonetheless.
Most of the human moods, energy levels, immunity, recovery, consciousness can be controlled by chemicals. It is no surprise that continuous use of a chemical will have impact.
The worry always is what does that extra chemical destroy as the body doesn't produce it naturally.
Curious if anyone has had hair issues while taking it. I’m aware that there’s no positive evidence for an effect, but there is an at least plausible mechanism. I’ve gone through two periods where I took it and liked the effects, but felt like I shed way more hair and stopped due to that.
If so creatine is supposed to help people push themselves harder and thus build more muscle. As a side-effect of intense exercises you'll create more testosterone. Increased testosterone leads to balding.
increased testosterone from working out is probably around 10-30% long time, which is a far lower variance than natural level variance in healthy adults. i think i heard from several (claimed natural) strength and bodybuilding athletes that their total testosterone is at the lower end of the scale.
that said, natural free test levels are at a fraction of what enhanced pro bodybuilders tend to supplement, and there are mass monsters with hair. cutler, yates, ferrigno and golden era bodybuilders like schwarzenegger, zane, columbu all had full heads of hair.
Yeah, wanted to point this out. I have mid-range natural test levels, more than my dad, and don't have any signs of balding. My dad lost half of his hair by the time i was born.
Steroid consumers have al least ten times my leves, and while this is a factor indeed, in is not necessarily decisive.
Yeah I think that is the biggest factor. I got family members that are built like brick shithouse from a life since childhood of physical labor that still have their hair into their 70s, there is no way they weren't maintaining high levels of testosterone their entire life but it didn't seem to matter.
It’s not increased testosterone in general that causes balding, it’s increased concentrations/sensitivity of testosterone byproducts in the hair follicles. There is no correlation between testosterone itself and baldness.
I bumped mine from 5g daily to 15 and noticed way less anxiety. It's a must have for me now. Besides that is the regular benefit of being able to squeeze out a few more reps during my kettlebell workouts
No but every time I try to take creatine supplements I get heart palpitations. Everyone says I am crazy and that it’s impossible but I have proof from my Apple Watch, one time it was so bad it said I had atrial fibrillation. I went to a cardiologist and he acknowledged it is a possibility but he hasn’t seen it before.
I think male baldness is a bit more complex than creatine->DHT->loss of hair.
But if you want to go down that road, there's also indications that the oil in pumpkin seeds reduce the enzymatic process that turns testosterone into DHT - so just eat some pumpkin seeds with your creatine and the problem goes away! It's that simple!!!
This is one study with 20 subjects and has never been replicated. There have since been multiple studies and reviews that have found no effect on hair loss or follicle health
I take 10g a day, have for a couple years now. Started mostly because of training but it does wonders in sleep deprived states.
5g would probably be fine without a lot of training ( I train about 10hrs a week). Seems like I need 10g to both get the physical and mental benefits, especially during peak training blocks (running 50-60 mpw with strength training).
I've recently started taking it and I've definitely noticed improved cognitive function. obviously all anecdotal and likely other contributing factors too (have been exercising more)..
The plausible mechanism is for male pattern baldness, but increased shedding is not MPB. MPB shrinks the size of the hairs on the top of your head over time. It isn't really affected by shedding which is normal and happens to everyone.
I'm 56 and have been experimenting with it. It definitely helps me stay laser focus on a task. I take between 10 to 15 grams a day in multiple doses. It does help with brain fatigue if you don't sleep well either. I'm also on keto diet and it helps me at the gym. Here is the thing everyone's DNA is different - keto works for me because I have tried it on and off. I have way more energy off carbs. I can also tolerate creatine, some people can't.
I’m still in the 30s but have found it to lower how much energy it takes to start something, rather than helping me stay focused. Same sort of idea, being in a higher-energy state, just pointing out that age doesn’t seem to be a requirement to get any benefit. I do also respond well the low-carb diets and heat that a lot from pro-creatine people so maybe there’s a connection to diet.
Since we are throwing in random N=1, it is very well tested and safe yes. But in my personal experience it does limit my creativity somehow. It seems to have like slightly calming/lower anxiety effect, and to me it comes with me coming up with fewer interesting things. Kind of lowering the model temperature if you will. Curious if anybody had a similar experience.
I work out but I've never taken it. I feel like not everything has to be minmaxed, sometimes some things are better left to nature. Easy come easy go as they say
That's a big odd - because creatine seems to be the universally beloved thing and that it's a bit natural and has positive effects with zero negative side effect. Not a criticism but aside fro proten, creatine seems to be 'the natural thing'. Pun intended.
Also a lot of peoples diets have a high amount already. And certain things like energy drinks have a lot if you drink a those.
I think a lot of the minmaxed stuff people do working out is mostly placebo because very few people are actually pushing the limits of natural human physiology and hitting some nutrient bottleneck.
1) It annoys me whenever anybody mentions literally anything (whatever baking soda, potassium, any vitamin) you get a million unhinged comments about how this was a personal panacea.
2) Creatine definitely does stuff, that's scientifically been established by numerous studies for decades. It's been recommended as a supplement for vegetarians for mental reasons and for people trying to build muscle-mass (sort of niche). I'm actually a bit surprised how few people talk about it when it's a standard blood test thing (possibly because it can't be patented).
3) It's dirt cheap and made by tons of difference places. I don't think there's a "big creatine." It's probably like < 25 cents a serving.
Creatine is one of the few supplements I actually notice a difference if I quit taking. Happy to see it’s benefits extend to beyond performance in the gym.
Funny because I'm not sure I quite notice it immediately when I stop taking it, presumably since the body retains a certain amount of it. But I definitely notice a difference when taking it the first day after not having had it a little while, especially when taking 20+ grams a day. It gives me so much mental energy and alertness that I won't get a whole lot of sleep, but the next day I end up feeling just fine. If I remember correctly, there have been at least 2 studies that suggested high doses of creatine reduce the side effects of suboptimal sleep, and that definitely seems to be the case in my experience.
Elevated creatinine levels (in absence of supplementation) is a sign of kidney issues. There are many studies showing no reverse link i.e. supplementing creatine damaging kidneys
Okay but logically kidney issues leading to high creatine does suggest that creatine is not all that good for the body, no? else why would the kidney keep it under control?
The only thing I notice is the impact to my weight. I think it makes me marginally stronger but not a huge effect. I take it because research seems to indicate it's a net positive with a small effect and it seems very safe...
A good question, but we don't know what anti-depressants do or how they do it, same with anti-psychotics, mood stabilizers, psychedelics, etc. I think we can say we have good theories for creatine.
We do know that it does do something at certain doses.
I feel like it makes me feel like crap and my brain weird every time I try it and searching my spreadsheet shows this effect many times when I forget and read something like the above article and try it again. Anyone else feel like this?
Are you increasing your water intake when you do? That sounds like dehydration. Creatine takes a large amount of water to appropriately process, and during the loading phase, your body is pushing substantially more water into your muscles. Anecdotally, if I don't drink something like an extra half gallon of water a day while loading at 15g/day, I show symptoms of dehydration. And I'm already drinking somewhere between a half gallon to a gallon a day.
Yes I can definitely “feel” it when I take it, especially so at 10g+. And it makes me overly reactive and somewhat irritable, and gives me a ton of energy that needs to be let out lest the former two get worse.
I keep a spreadsheet about my health, blood work, any supplements I take, how they make me feel etc. The summary would be that I take zero supplements now haha. I have tried so so many.
I feel like for me it would be thwarted by the fact creatine seems to completely mess up my sleep. I don't remember that from when I was younger, but recently tried adding it to my diet and had to bail.
Magnesium Taurate is the form of magnesium I settled on. I take 1500mg of it (300mg elemental Mg) every evening before sleep, but I feel that even half of this dose has a noticeable effect on my sleep.
Magnesium Glycinate was destroying my sleep even when I took it in the afternoon. I'd wake up after 4-5h of sleep and would feel completely alert as if it was midday and then tiredness would slowly ascend on me over the next few hours but I'd still be unable to fall asleep.
Side question: I've always been a recreational runner, running 3/4x a week, completed a few half marathons, and recently decided to _also_ go to the gym to do strength training as it has a lot of benefits for runners too. Should I consider/take creatine, is it useful?
I run and do strength training. I think the consensus is that it's not that beneficial for running. You're going to gain a bit of weight which presumably is going to make you slower.
If you were a competitive runner then you'd probably want to cycle it so that you get the strength training benefit but also optimize for your races.
I take it. I did a 10k race and stopped for two weeks. I'm also not super consistent but I try to take about 5-10g a day.
In terms of optimizing overall health I would say take it + running + strength training is a good combination. The effects are not huge and vary person to person.
I’m an ultra runner, I’ll do 50-60 mpw weeks during peak weeks with strength training.
I take 10g creatine, it did wonders for me. More energy and mental sharpness.
Strength training is essential for runners to avoid injury at high mileage. Sleep, strength, and nutrition. It can’t be ignored or you will get injured.
Agree on getting enough protein (and sleep, and recovery time).
Strength training isn't all about mass. You can get stronger without gaining mass. There is a neural component and an efficiency component. At some point though you do need a bigger muscle to be stronger. There is also the question of whether you're optimizing for faster (fast twitch) or slower movements.
I don't take it. But to the best of my knowledge there are basically only three things with any body of evidence that they work with few/any downsides: protein supplements, fish/algae oil, and creatine. That's it. It's kind of weird that people get so hyped up about it, but at least they're not getting hyped up about some random wellness influencer supplement.
The first time I took creatine (6g IIRC), I actually felt the mental effect just 2 minutes later. A pleasurable sensation of augmented presence and (mental) relaxation.
I paused taking that momentarily out of precaution while I wait some physical issue to normalize, but I plan to resume it in some weeks. Also it is considered a very safe supplement.
I've felt dehydrated while I'm in loading phase, it's very noticeable from that perspective. But the mental effects only come after at least a week (for me: longer attention span, less impacted by poor sleep).
Just beware that for some people (myself included), it causes stomach issues (quite intense in my case). There are mitigation strategies (slowly build up the dose, use more water, take with food, split up the doses across meals, and consider using the less studied HCL variant).
I have bad central sleep apnea, and regardless of CPAP I still end up with poor quality sleep unfortunately. I was on stimulants like Modafinil and Ritalin for over a decade, which comes at a huge cost physically, mentally. Its the only supplement I take other than Vitamin D, I'm not some freak biohacker.
I've completely replaced stimulant use with 15g of Creatine a day, and 25-30g on days when I feel especially sleep deprived. It has actually changed my life. I decided to try this after reading this paper and will never go back: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-54249-9
There's lots of interesting literature on Creatine starting to be published.
EDIT: Also Creatine destroying your kidneys is a myth (unless you already have kidney issues). This myth is spread because people go to their doctors and get their kidney function tested while supplementing creatine. The doctor will initially be concerned because there will be higher levels of creatine in your urine, which is a sign of kidney disease. However, they will not be concerned if you tell them you're supplementing creatine.
If you have excess creatine in your urine while not supplementing creatine then that would be of concern. If you are worried about this stop supplementation a week prior to getting kidney function testing.
I haven't heard of that but I know creatine causes loads of water absorption. I wonder if you're borderline dehydrated and creatine pushes you over the limit.
I use Creapure (a/k/a "German Creatine")as well. Always hard to know with supplements but Creapure seems to be legit. Also use creatine monohydrate not creatine HCL. Monohydrate is harder to disolve so use warm water (I put mine in my coffee) but it's the one that's been studied the most and has the most documented evidence.
It’s a flavorless powder you mix into a drink. It unfortunately doesn’t really dissolve, so it can be a little grainy if taken with water but it’s mostly flavorless so outside of that you wouldn’t notice it.
5g/day is the general recommendation and most packaging will come with an appropriately sized scoop, notably this is one of the rare ones where dose doesn’t seem to be adjusted by age or bodyweight. I presume because it’s cheap, well-studied, and there don’t appear to be downsides for overdoing it. They’re testing it at up to and possibly above 25g/day for Alzheimer’s.
Some people recommend a higher “loading” dose for the first two weeks to build up reserves in your body more quickly, but if the goal is to start taking it daily, this is really unnecessary.
> there don’t appear to be downsides for overdoing it
There may or may not be a downside depending on what one considers a downside.
In one of my other comments I just made in this thread, I mentioned my experience taking relatively large doses of 20g a day. While I found it has cognitive benefits, it did interfere with my sleep, though not catastrophically. If a person happens to enjoy sleep, then it's probably best they stick to 5 or 10 grams. On the other hand, if you need to pull an all-nighter, the sleep interference (as well as the better recovery the following day) may not be seen as a downside but beneficial.
But yeah, from a toxicological perspective, creatine does seem very safe even at those doses.
Yes, there is always going to be someone somewhere that sees some sort of issue. My point wasn’t that nobody anywhere has ever experienced a negative consequence, but that at scale, it is overwhelmingly safe and so it isn’t really worth advising the general public to tailor their dose.
Any of the rare issues that people do experience—especially at the 5g/day level across age and weight—are minor, acute, and easy to resolve by simply lowering the dose.
Others mentioned dissolving it. I find just getting it over with is easier for me. I dump the whole scoop into my mouth and wash it down with a mouthful of water or two. It is flavorless, after all.
Is this a joke? I hope? A) drinking a glass of water is 'the lowest bar' and 2) using creatine means you have to up your water intake. If you don't drink the water, it won't work.
I do this sometimes with 5g creatine monohydrate and I can definitely tell my coffee is more bitter than usual. Not undrinkable but it does spoil the experience of good coffee somewhat.
My favourite mixer is something slightly acidic or sharp tasting, like kefir which also holds the crystals in suspension and somehow is a little less gritty as a result, and masks the bitterness quite well.
I take 3-5g of creatine monohydrate in a glass of water. People usually take it with their protein shake, which for me contains a 30g serving of Organic low-sodium pea protein powder.
If I take creatine too late in the day, it definitely wrecks my sleep. It is good when taken as early in the day as possible.
As for the age group, I think it could be fine for anyone who is 18 or older.
As for a second dose, that's of possible value for intense exercise, but again be mindful of insomnia.
Note that some sensitive brains, e.g. those with excitotoxicity/inflammation pressure/headache/migraine issues, may not always tolerate creatine well. Such people need to fix their underlying brain issue first before using creatine.
This looks like research just three months too late, to be honest. In the Agentic Timeline I’m not worried about Alzheimers. My Google Glasses paired with ChatGPT can tell me where the power button is.
What is TheSciVerse.org? The domain was registered 8 weeks ago. Although The Guardian also covered the study...
___
More recently, attention has shifted beyond the gym. Early research suggests creatine could have a role in cognitive function, with some studies pointing to protection from cognitive decline.
“A few bigger studies have brought it into focus,” says [Bethan Crouse, a sports nutritionist at Loughborough University].
Peter Attia is a crap human being for being buddies with Epstein after most of his crimes were already known.
But I still trust his analysis more than anyone else at dissecting this kind of stuff and separating the wheat from the chaff. I'll be curious to see if he covers this.
Isn't that, like, the most common side effect of it? I was just googling for side effects, and different sources vary a bit, but almost all list digestive discomfort
I feel like crap when taking creatine...
Actually most of these purported supplements are a no go. Preworkouts would work first session then make me ultra tired, caffeine is fine as long as I 'cycle' it...
Wondering strongly if those studies are not just to sell more cheap supplements... As long as for some reason we find that it has some level of effect on most people.
It has some effect for sure but not sure it is that positive...
Besides, I don't know if it helped jump start the process or not but I build muscle either way, on little protein, no creatine... Carbs seem to be more important actually.
Anyway, let me take a scoop of creatine to try again, even though I am unconvinced... Hope sells... :s
(I think hydration levels are more important and that is not solved by drinking low mineralized water although I find it has better taste, it gets rid of tiredness)
Try micronised (even finer powder, maxxwell has them) or even in jelly gummy form.
I take 7.5 g every day for a couple of years now and what I definitely noticed is much lower sugar cravings during hard programming days: previously I would eat almost one chocolate every day.
What precisely does it mean to "feel crap"? Is that how you would describe it to a doctor? You seem to also be making broad generalizations. Overall your comment is providing zero insight whatsoever wrt creatine.
In my experience, those with creatine intolerance, especially if assuming it's not taken late in the day, have unresolved excitotoxicty/inflammation/pressure/headache/migraine issues in their brain.
Also, be mindful with blends as they can be fairly dangerous. It's best to get an isolated creatine monohydrate product that is not a blend.
Check your blood pressure. It is very possible that there is something else in your blend that is raising your BP.
Creatine is great regardless, just dont get sold by whatever the nonsense article is pushing if anything. Generic creatine the cheapest you can find is likely your best bet.
I have the same struggles with preworkout, they are just overkill for me and make me crash and i feel they impact my sleep because i usually work out at a random time so the caffeine timing may be terrible. Certainly had success with them for a while, but it was when i didn't really care when i went to sleep because when i was younger I'd just sleep for 8-10 hours straight regardless of time of day/night.
There was some improvement in cognitive scores, but no placebo group. Without a placebo group, there are a lot of explanations for the data.
Yeah 20 patients is not a lot. I'm inferring this is a pre-post test. However some of those p-values are pretty good (.001 on reading and and sorting). Very promising pilot study but not conclusive imo.
And List Sorting, Oral reading, and Flanker only? The first and last are part of global and fluid composites, so those have to be excluded from comparison. That leaves us with 3 improved scores out of 12 tests. So 9 did not improve, or got worse. Figure 3 (of the original article) shows that the changes aren't big. Just "significant". Since the participants were in the early stages of dementia, this seems well within expectations.
So I can't see those numbers as impressive.
> Sounds like something we should study more rather than dismiss.
Ignoring the implication of your use of "dismiss", why? How is this pilot promising?
What I worry about more is that it has more to do with fixing a deficiency. That being deficient in creatine causes a cognitive loss more than supplementing causes a boost.
I'll add to this: the referenced trial occurred over 8 weeks, so even if we stipulate that the improvements in cognition (which are dubious, as tgv points out in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48347906) are due to treatment rather than some other effect, we don't know that the effect is disease-modifying as opposed to symptomatic. As with acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, it may just be having a cognition-enhancing effect which, nevertheless, does not alter the underlying disease trajectory (i.e. just shifting the declining trajectory up vertically by a constant amount), and might revert shortly after discontinuing use of the drug.
A controlled trial, over a much longer duration, and ideally with a wash-out period, would be necessary to identify a disease-modifying effect.
But at the same time "creatine’s brain benefits aren’t as exciting as social media makes them out to be. The research at this point just doesn’t support the hype".
Source: https://physiqonomics.com/creatine-cognitive-performance/
I wanted to check the dosages they used. Looks like the review includes studies ranging from 5g/day to 20-25g/day.
(Typical dosage you'll see for daily use is 5 grams)
However, If you reveal to that doctor that you're supplementing Creatine it will not be concern them.
EDIT: I don't do 25g though... sounds like a lot...
Edit: see comment below (i.e. better to stop taking creatine at least a week before a test).
Precisely and correctly as they said, normal eGFR presumes average musculature and average creatine consumption. If either of these out of the norm, eGFR becomes inaccurate and potentially flagging false positives for damage. Creatinine, the waste product of creatine, raises in a way that can get confused with kidney damage, which is precisely how the confusion about it causing kidney damage or being bad if you have a compromised kidney came about.
In some studies, people with CKD actually improved with creatine supplementation, though notably this was not people with PKD where it could increase cyst growth.
Creatine supplementation will freak out a lot of doctors if they're not warned of it ahead of time, though, and sometimes you'll even need to explain to them that they will see elevated levels of creatinine on the tests and it won't be an accurate predictor of kidney function.
If you're supplementing with creatine and need your kidneys tested it's easiest to stop a couple of weeks before, or ask for a Cystatin C test and make sure they use the relevant adjustments for body mass as well if you e.g. lift weights - I've more than once had doctors imply they were worried I had kidney disease because they were entirely unaware of the effects both creatine and large body pass has on the regular tests.
Going to something that frequently hallucinates or misstates things to the point where it's "trust, but verify by reading the source" means you may as well just read the literature you'd have to verify the summary against anyway.
Never heard of the acronym though so not sure what the mutation implies.
What exactly helped you?
It’s called a loading phase to quickly saturate the tissues i.e for a week or so for someone who never took the creatine. You can absolutely skip this.
I wouldn’t go higher than 10g daily on a regular basis.
I personally take 7.5g for the last couple of years.
Ask because many of the online tools I've tried, they will sometimes tag what I've written at 30-40% AI written and sometimes purely AI written stuff is flagged as 60-70% AI
First one is Pangram. Other available detectors are varying level of bad, with some of them entirely shit (eg zerogpt something).
The second one is human mind. Read enough of that slop and your brain hopefully will start detecting AI patterns.
And this article is totally AI, both to Pangram, and to my mind.
And I believe my experience is something expected. People are also certain kind of a neural network. If an LLM system is trainable to be a decent detector, I don't see a reason why at least some people couldn't be.
Similar as with coding, yes, halting problem!, but we've been always reviewing code nonetheless.
The worry always is what does that extra chemical destroy as the body doesn't produce it naturally.
The better rebuttal is that the paper didn’t follow RCT protocols.
If so creatine is supposed to help people push themselves harder and thus build more muscle. As a side-effect of intense exercises you'll create more testosterone. Increased testosterone leads to balding.
Even early 90s famous era mass monsters were not all bald.
Baldness is known to be related to a bunch of things: testosterone levels, something to do with blood delivery to the scalp, deeper genetic factors.
Surprsingly, for some of the cases scalp massage is known to help.
that said, natural free test levels are at a fraction of what enhanced pro bodybuilders tend to supplement, and there are mass monsters with hair. cutler, yates, ferrigno and golden era bodybuilders like schwarzenegger, zane, columbu all had full heads of hair.
Steroid consumers have al least ten times my leves, and while this is a factor indeed, in is not necessarily decisive.
Using steroids does have the effect. And a bunch of others, most of them unhealthy.
These things might look correlated as steroid ppl often consume creatine as well as some other things.
But if you want to go down that road, there's also indications that the oil in pumpkin seeds reduce the enzymatic process that turns testosterone into DHT - so just eat some pumpkin seeds with your creatine and the problem goes away! It's that simple!!!
5g would probably be fine without a lot of training ( I train about 10hrs a week). Seems like I need 10g to both get the physical and mental benefits, especially during peak training blocks (running 50-60 mpw with strength training).
5/6g a day.
Very demanding job with lots of ‘thinking’
3 times a week gym
Pre creatine I would struggle to maintain ability to do the hard thinking around 3pm. Just like, fog or I could feel my brain didn’t have capacity.
Now, I am capable till the end of the day. Feels like a well trained athlete at the end of a game being able to deliver rather than just holding on.
I think a lot of the minmaxed stuff people do working out is mostly placebo because very few people are actually pushing the limits of natural human physiology and hitting some nutrient bottleneck.
1) It annoys me whenever anybody mentions literally anything (whatever baking soda, potassium, any vitamin) you get a million unhinged comments about how this was a personal panacea.
2) Creatine definitely does stuff, that's scientifically been established by numerous studies for decades. It's been recommended as a supplement for vegetarians for mental reasons and for people trying to build muscle-mass (sort of niche). I'm actually a bit surprised how few people talk about it when it's a standard blood test thing (possibly because it can't be patented).
3) It's dirt cheap and made by tons of difference places. I don't think there's a "big creatine." It's probably like < 25 cents a serving.
The profit margins on creatine are not high.
You seem very confident you can tell the difference so I thought I'd ask first.
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1186/s12882-025-045...
We do know that it does do something at certain doses.
What does this mean?
Magnesium Glycinate was destroying my sleep even when I took it in the afternoon. I'd wake up after 4-5h of sleep and would feel completely alert as if it was midday and then tiredness would slowly ascend on me over the next few hours but I'd still be unable to fall asleep.
If you were a competitive runner then you'd probably want to cycle it so that you get the strength training benefit but also optimize for your races.
I take it. I did a 10k race and stopped for two weeks. I'm also not super consistent but I try to take about 5-10g a day.
In terms of optimizing overall health I would say take it + running + strength training is a good combination. The effects are not huge and vary person to person.
I take 10g creatine, it did wonders for me. More energy and mental sharpness.
Strength training is essential for runners to avoid injury at high mileage. Sleep, strength, and nutrition. It can’t be ignored or you will get injured.
If you intend to have any benefits of going to the gym then protein (and overall calorie consumption) would have to be monitored.
Running sort of conflicts with working out: it wants you to be light and burns plenty of energy.
Gym wants you to gain mass. No mass gains -> gym us useless.
Creatine is kind of an afterthought in this bigger picture. Might give you an extra rep or two but that's it.
Strength training isn't all about mass. You can get stronger without gaining mass. There is a neural component and an efficiency component. At some point though you do need a bigger muscle to be stronger. There is also the question of whether you're optimizing for faster (fast twitch) or slower movements.
In short: seems to help with high intensity exercises and post-exercise recovery, helps with muscle development, and a bunch of other benefits.
I paused taking that momentarily out of precaution while I wait some physical issue to normalize, but I plan to resume it in some weeks. Also it is considered a very safe supplement.
To my knowledge creatine has no significant effects until your levels rise after, say, a week of taking daily
I've completely replaced stimulant use with 15g of Creatine a day, and 25-30g on days when I feel especially sleep deprived. It has actually changed my life. I decided to try this after reading this paper and will never go back: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-54249-9
There's lots of interesting literature on Creatine starting to be published.
EDIT: Also Creatine destroying your kidneys is a myth (unless you already have kidney issues). This myth is spread because people go to their doctors and get their kidney function tested while supplementing creatine. The doctor will initially be concerned because there will be higher levels of creatine in your urine, which is a sign of kidney disease. However, they will not be concerned if you tell them you're supplementing creatine.
If you have excess creatine in your urine while not supplementing creatine then that would be of concern. If you are worried about this stop supplementation a week prior to getting kidney function testing.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10999421/
https://creatine-sandy.vercel.app/
Instead of 5grams/day like 2grams/day
You can also spread it out during the day to avoid retention, 1000mg x 4 or x 2
Creatine is also a precursor to SAM-e which is a natural antidepresant
but you are right, independent testing finds some brands are garbage
* https://supp.co/tested/creatine.pdf
* https://supp.co/articles/suppco-tested-creatine-testing-resu...
I switched to sportsresearch brand when they had a sale on amazon
$19 for 1KG (2.2 pounds) but it's like double that now (don't buy) amazon.com/dp/B0DXR7MPNV
5g/day is the general recommendation and most packaging will come with an appropriately sized scoop, notably this is one of the rare ones where dose doesn’t seem to be adjusted by age or bodyweight. I presume because it’s cheap, well-studied, and there don’t appear to be downsides for overdoing it. They’re testing it at up to and possibly above 25g/day for Alzheimer’s.
Some people recommend a higher “loading” dose for the first two weeks to build up reserves in your body more quickly, but if the goal is to start taking it daily, this is really unnecessary.
There may or may not be a downside depending on what one considers a downside.
In one of my other comments I just made in this thread, I mentioned my experience taking relatively large doses of 20g a day. While I found it has cognitive benefits, it did interfere with my sleep, though not catastrophically. If a person happens to enjoy sleep, then it's probably best they stick to 5 or 10 grams. On the other hand, if you need to pull an all-nighter, the sleep interference (as well as the better recovery the following day) may not be seen as a downside but beneficial.
But yeah, from a toxicological perspective, creatine does seem very safe even at those doses.
Any of the rare issues that people do experience—especially at the 5g/day level across age and weight—are minor, acute, and easy to resolve by simply lowering the dose.
There is the build up period where you take a higher dose for a week, 8g, in order to saturate the body faster.
I wouldn’t bother with the “loading phase” you often see recommended online. Just be consistent.
My favourite mixer is something slightly acidic or sharp tasting, like kefir which also holds the crystals in suspension and somehow is a little less gritty as a result, and masks the bitterness quite well.
Creatine requires you to increase your daily water intake, and actually do it.
If I take creatine too late in the day, it definitely wrecks my sleep. It is good when taken as early in the day as possible.
As for the age group, I think it could be fine for anyone who is 18 or older.
As for a second dose, that's of possible value for intense exercise, but again be mindful of insomnia.
Note that some sensitive brains, e.g. those with excitotoxicity/inflammation pressure/headache/migraine issues, may not always tolerate creatine well. Such people need to fix their underlying brain issue first before using creatine.
___
More recently, attention has shifted beyond the gym. Early research suggests creatine could have a role in cognitive function, with some studies pointing to protection from cognitive decline.
“A few bigger studies have brought it into focus,” says [Bethan Crouse, a sports nutritionist at Loughborough University].
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2026/may/25/is-it-t...
besides i’d rather just avoid brainrot and substances in general
But I still trust his analysis more than anyone else at dissecting this kind of stuff and separating the wheat from the chaff. I'll be curious to see if he covers this.
Wondering strongly if those studies are not just to sell more cheap supplements... As long as for some reason we find that it has some level of effect on most people.
It has some effect for sure but not sure it is that positive... Besides, I don't know if it helped jump start the process or not but I build muscle either way, on little protein, no creatine... Carbs seem to be more important actually.
Anyway, let me take a scoop of creatine to try again, even though I am unconvinced... Hope sells... :s
(I think hydration levels are more important and that is not solved by drinking low mineralized water although I find it has better taste, it gets rid of tiredness)
I take 7.5 g every day for a couple of years now and what I definitely noticed is much lower sugar cravings during hard programming days: previously I would eat almost one chocolate every day.
Though YMMV, as I also bench press 140 kg.
In my experience, those with creatine intolerance, especially if assuming it's not taken late in the day, have unresolved excitotoxicty/inflammation/pressure/headache/migraine issues in their brain.
Also, be mindful with blends as they can be fairly dangerous. It's best to get an isolated creatine monohydrate product that is not a blend.
Check your blood pressure. It is very possible that there is something else in your blend that is raising your BP.
I have the same struggles with preworkout, they are just overkill for me and make me crash and i feel they impact my sleep because i usually work out at a random time so the caffeine timing may be terrible. Certainly had success with them for a while, but it was when i didn't really care when i went to sleep because when i was younger I'd just sleep for 8-10 hours straight regardless of time of day/night.