My first thought was to wonder what the impact is on existing hydrothermal ecosystems.
The Axial Seamount area is not at all some dead barren zone we can just tap into without concern for ecological harm. Hydrothermal vent areas are very vibrant ecosystems that influence deep ocean ecology in ways we already understand, and probably ways we don't yet understand.
I am glad to see in their press release [1] they do mention careful selection of sites, conditions for operation, and ecological monitoring. And the area is already the focus of oceanographic research by various institutions.
It's not about heat loss, it's about possible impact on the ocean floor and thus the unique ecosystems of hydrothermal vents. It may have a low-impact profile when managed correctly, but the process carries potential risks to delicate benthic ecosystems if not done well.
I'm not saying this work is a bad thing, just that one needs to be pretty careful about it. It's probably a soap box I'm more willing to jump up on being a former marine technician on research ships for many years.
again, a lot of words yet didn't specify the impacts. From LLM:
- vent animals don’t live off the heat. They live off the chemistry in the vent fluid
- so changing of vent flow can be disruptiev
- altering fluid chemistry. organisms there live in very tight thermal and chemical gradients, so little changes can be devastating
- Anchors, drill rigs, equipment frames and power cables crush things
- secondary human/machinery pollution from Leaks of a working fluid, if it’s a closed loop using something like ammonia, antifouling coatings and corrosion products.
- subseafloor microbial biosphere
Would love for experts in this field to chime in though. fascinating stuff.
I have quite a few friends that work at Endurance. I’m excited by their development and to see them making news. Their concept is a cool one. Interested to see how they balance potentially disrupting those ecosystems with putting electricity on the grid.
Man how high is that equivalent LCOE. No way does capex and opex on this work out. Geothermal underwater with a heat source thats potentially changing a lot.
Seems like a headline grabber and not a real solution but hopefully some useful tech comes out of it.
Yeah I'm curious about that too. It's an interesting way to get non-weather dependent power in some remote locations, but how useful is that over solar+batteries really? Maybe it's cheaper than synthetic methane?
“The company is also developing a larger 2-megawatt commercial generator for its first planned commercial deployment with the Kingdom of Tonga in 2027. The Polynesian island nation in the South Pacific Ocean runs its power grid primarily on imported diesel fuel, which has significantly increased in price since the United States and Israel launched their war with Iran.
“The 2 MW commercial generators will be about the size of a shipping container, and we are deploying up to six of these generators [to] offshore Tonga,” Redd told Ars. “The physical footprint of this project will be relatively small.”
Nice potential application! I’m not sure of the scaling economics but I certainly do love to see all forms of power generation explored
I have tried that in Oxygen Not Included. The problem is that magma quickly solidifies when you remove energy. I wonder if they took that into account.
Or the Late Permian Siberian Traps when the crust ripped open, erupted for 2 million years, and "are believed to be the primary cause of the Permian–Triassic extinction event, the most severe extinction event in the geologic record": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_Traps
THats... Wow. Ok, I didn't expect to read something so strange but useful here. I'm just scared of what consequences it could have in the reality, like creating natural disasters or simila
In the Horizon games (2017, 2022) the egotistical world-wrecking trillionaire puts it elsewhere...
> TED FARO: "An automated geothermal energy plant, right under the city of San Francisco. A marvel. Even I can run it, and let's face it - I was always more of a visionary than an engineer. Which is why I had the foresight... to insist on the inclusion of a very unique feature, just in case anyone ever tries to steal my cheese, so to speak."
> These recent studies demonstrated for example, that silicic supereruptions with volume exceeding 1,000 km3 of eruptible magma can be generated in less than 5,000–10,000 years (which we call “Yellowstone” type), to longer than 500,000 years
And geology is not a context where "less than 5,000" realistically includes, like 5, or even 100.
Great news for island nations and territories if this can scale. There’s something very sci-fi about islands powered by underwater volcanoes, and the jobs it could create would be fascinating. Going from pearl divers to subsea power-station drone technicians, ha.
I wonder what industries it could help thrive. afaik Iceland has a relatively big aluminium smelting industry due to its cheap, excess geothermal power. Could we see new opportunities spring up in places like Kerguelen, South Georgia or Tristan da Cunha? Modern takes on whaling stations?
Remote places don’t have a lack of jobs because of a lack of energy (many of them have a lot of it), but because they are remote. Exploration of a new resource might change how remote they are (Dubai is less remote today than before oil was discovered), but only if the resource is sobering with developing linkages for. Not sure why it would be worth tapping underwater volcanoes in a currently remote place when there are plenty of geothermal sources in less remote places available.
> There’s something very sci-fi about islands powered by underwater volcanoes, and the jobs it could create would be fascinating. Going from pearl divers to subsea power-station drone technicians, ha
Volcanoes and underwater jobs? Sounds like Sci-fi Horrors
I feel that I should be able name several Jules Verne characters, "B" movie villains, and such who powered their underwater lairs and/or sinister superweapons this way - but I'm coming up blank.
Did they though? Syndrome had a volcano base for sure, but I don't remember them ever showing a powerplant. The guy was harnessing zero point energy somehow; doesn't seem like mere lava would interest him as a power source.
I’ve been expecting Oracle to do this. It’d solve their current data center power problem. And it gives a place for Ellison to have video calls with the UN.
> Seriously. How often do we get a story that intersects power generation and volcanos?
Exactly! But your comment and its lame subthread, which all had nothing to do with the article, sat at the top of the thread for hours, drowning out substantive comments that were relevant to the article.
I wouldn’t bother replying if it just slipped down the bottom of the thread. But keeping discussions high-quality and on-topic is my job here and that means reminding people to post thoughtful, substantive comments, not “whatever comes to mind, regardless of how it will come across”. We especially need longer term/more prominent users to set the example, please.
The Axial Seamount area is not at all some dead barren zone we can just tap into without concern for ecological harm. Hydrothermal vent areas are very vibrant ecosystems that influence deep ocean ecology in ways we already understand, and probably ways we don't yet understand.
I am glad to see in their press release [1] they do mention careful selection of sites, conditions for operation, and ecological monitoring. And the area is already the focus of oceanographic research by various institutions.
[1] https://www.enduranceenergy.com/press/adelie
I'm not saying this work is a bad thing, just that one needs to be pretty careful about it. It's probably a soap box I'm more willing to jump up on being a former marine technician on research ships for many years.
- vent animals don’t live off the heat. They live off the chemistry in the vent fluid
- so changing of vent flow can be disruptiev
- altering fluid chemistry. organisms there live in very tight thermal and chemical gradients, so little changes can be devastating
- Anchors, drill rigs, equipment frames and power cables crush things
- secondary human/machinery pollution from Leaks of a working fluid, if it’s a closed loop using something like ammonia, antifouling coatings and corrosion products.
- subseafloor microbial biosphere
Would love for experts in this field to chime in though. fascinating stuff.
Seems like a headline grabber and not a real solution but hopefully some useful tech comes out of it.
“The 2 MW commercial generators will be about the size of a shipping container, and we are deploying up to six of these generators [to] offshore Tonga,” Redd told Ars. “The physical footprint of this project will be relatively small.”
Nice potential application! I’m not sure of the scaling economics but I certainly do love to see all forms of power generation explored
Mankind needs to learn before it's too late.
The article references an expert who is skeptical, saying that this is unlikely to be cheaper than just doing it on land (standard geothermal)?
The article also references reasons to think this could be worthwhile. Cooling, pressure, etc. One could also guess that permitting could be easier.
But I'm left not really understanding whether they proved enough, or what really needs to be proven.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_in_the_World
> TED FARO: "An automated geothermal energy plant, right under the city of San Francisco. A marvel. Even I can run it, and let's face it - I was always more of a visionary than an engineer. Which is why I had the foresight... to insist on the inclusion of a very unique feature, just in case anyone ever tries to steal my cheese, so to speak."
Really hope we get Horizon 3 sooner than later, I loved The Frozen Wilds and it would be great to get back up there.
Geothermal power -> some % saved for atmospheric carbon extraction makes it a carbon negative endeavor.
Relieve the US energy woes somewhat.
Use the carbon to make methane for his rockets.
And make some diesel fuel too, while he's at it (though he'll have to stock up on soybeans - great for his eventual presidential run)
From the first link, again:
> These recent studies demonstrated for example, that silicic supereruptions with volume exceeding 1,000 km3 of eruptible magma can be generated in less than 5,000–10,000 years (which we call “Yellowstone” type), to longer than 500,000 years
And geology is not a context where "less than 5,000" realistically includes, like 5, or even 100.
I wonder what industries it could help thrive. afaik Iceland has a relatively big aluminium smelting industry due to its cheap, excess geothermal power. Could we see new opportunities spring up in places like Kerguelen, South Georgia or Tristan da Cunha? Modern takes on whaling stations?
Volcanoes and underwater jobs? Sounds like Sci-fi Horrors
Correct, the novel is called Starfish by Peter Watts. Though it's mostly not the volcano that kills people.
Anyone?
Some tropes become only known from their parodies, and they lead to other parodies.
Dr Evil in shambles!
Anyone need sugar? He has some in his pocket. How about cream? No thanks!
> Don't be curmudgeonly. Thoughtful criticism is fine, but please don't be rigidly or generically negative.
Seriously. How often do we get a story that intersects power generation and volcanos?
I read, or at least lightly skim through, the article I post about. But always post whatever comes to mind, regardless of how it will come across.
> Seriously. How often do we get a story that intersects power generation and volcanos?
Exactly! But your comment and its lame subthread, which all had nothing to do with the article, sat at the top of the thread for hours, drowning out substantive comments that were relevant to the article.
I wouldn’t bother replying if it just slipped down the bottom of the thread. But keeping discussions high-quality and on-topic is my job here and that means reminding people to post thoughtful, substantive comments, not “whatever comes to mind, regardless of how it will come across”. We especially need longer term/more prominent users to set the example, please.
Also, let's not sell him short: those aren't video calls, they're ransom calls.